Dr. Kevin McGruder has been interviewed by Dr. Terrance Dean and “The Other Side” podcast host, Scot Kirk, about his essay “How to be an Antiracist in Ohio” in a recent podcast episode for Columbus Dispatch titled “In Black and White: Why being antiracist is more than just disapproving of racism.”

In the Podcast, Dr. McGruder refers to two sources, Stamped from the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America and How to Be an Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi, and explains that these books create a clear vocabulary for understanding what racism is, what racist policies are, and how being neutral is not enough to dismantle racism.

He explains that certain policies have been framed by some politicians as zero-sum thinking which perceives situations as zero-sum games, where one person’s gain would be another’s loss. In order to move forward with racial discourse, Dr. McGruder explains that we need to move away from zero-sum thinking in terms of success.

“If you look at the South in the 1800s during slave times, there were no public schools because the Southern slaveholders didn’t want to pay taxes for them. Poor white people were hurt just as much as Black people. After slavery, in freedom, as schools were getting started, Black people and white people befitted. While white people didn’t think it was in their interest to support public schools, it was.”

Dr. Mcgruder explains that “being an antiracist means that all groups are equal,” and that “there isn’t one group that there’s anything wrong with because they’re part of a group.” Dr. McGruder also provides key insight into how policy framing of the Depression’s New Deal programs, Red-Lining, and the Affordable Care Act has played a significant role in public perception to pit certain groups against each other.